Some open questions to Thane and others

[pitbull]

Here is a series of open questions to those who have attacked me about CCM. Some of these attacks have been vicious, especially from those who disagree with me about the stance that I take. So, if you can answer these questions without being subjective, you may have a better understanding of what I believe and why I believe it.

First, let me ask you some questions about those of us that God has freed from CCM.
· Since God has brought me personally out of CCM [used to be lead singer for Shielded, a CCM rock & rap band that blended the styles of Petra and dcTalk], should I disobey God and go back to that lifestyle?
· Since CCM was instrumental in getting me into a backslidden condition [such as staying out of church and neglecting prayer and the Bible], should I go back to that lifestyle?
· What about the brethren that God has used me to help them get freedom from CCM? Should they go back to their old lifestyle?
· One brother [who became so backslidden] was contemplating committing suicide last spring. His departure from the faith began when he started listening to Carmen, Steven Curtis Chapman, Michael Card, etc. Now, that I have been able to help restore this brother, should I send him back to one of the key items [namely CCM] that nearly destroyed him?
· Seeing what I have personally seen in my own life and that of other brethren destroyed by CCM, should I not warn other brethren out of brotherly love and concern for their spiritual welfare?

Second, let me ask you some questions about brethren whom used to be involved in secular music industry.
· I know Christians, including preachers, who used to be involved in the country music industry. They have no desire to be involved in the CCM form known as “Southern Gospel” due to how much the style is similar to country music. Are they wrong for abstaining from this sanitized secular of music, let alone lovingly warning others against it?
· I know Christians, including preachers, who used to be involved in the rock music industry [including “lite rock” or pop]. They have no desire to be involved in the CCM forms that mimic the styles they used to be involved with. One preacher [used to have long hair and played the bass guitar] told me that there is no such creature as “Christian rock”. In his words, “It is either Christian or it is rock. It cannot be both.” Are they wrong for abstaining from this sanitized secular of music, let alone lovingly warning others against it?
· Why are people who are saved and leave the secular music industry [rock, country, rap, etc.], they will not embrace CCM at all? Why do they avoid it and warn others about it? Why won’t they consider it a “new song”?
· I know that some one will say that these are just “weak” brethren. If you had the blessing to meet the people I am referring to, you would never say that about them. They are far stronger than others I have ever met. Should only those who are “weak” spiritually abstain from CCM? Is there another reason why these specific brethren avoid it and speak out against it?
· Considering this, why would I want to get involved in CCM and have a testimony that would be a stumbling block to other brethren?

Third, let me ask you some questions about the lost that I have met.
· Why do people I meet who are lost mention that they realize that they will have to give up their styles of music [rap, rock, country, jazz, etc.] after they get saved? Why do they realize that Christians don’t listen to those types of music? Why do they have this perspective of Christians? Why do they have this level of discernment between worldly and Christian?
· Why do people I meet who are lost mention that they get turned off from churches that use CCM? As one put it, “If I wanted to listen to that style of music, I would stay at home and listen to my own music.”
· When I was in Shielded, we had one guitarist from a local rock band listen to our music. He liked it and said, “Wow! That is good! It sounds similar to what I play!” This convicted me and helped to start to move me away from CCM. Shouldn’t there have been a clear distinction? Shouldn’t he had a different reaction if our music was Christian since he was a lost person?
· A gentleman [with a 20-year old daughter] I was witnessing to yesterday told me that he quit attending a church because they were only interested in their band and putting on a show. His words, not mine. He said I was the first person to clearly explain the Gospel to him. He didn’t get saved, but a definite seed was planted. One of his first questions before he would come visit our church was, “You don’t play that so-called Christian rock junk, do you?” Why are he and many unsaved people I meet being turned off by CCM?
· When I come across people with a Wiccan, Satanic, or pagan background, why do they tell me that they believe CCM has “borrowed” their musical styles? Why do they consider Christians who use CCM as hypocrites? Why has this become a hindrance to them getting saved?
· Considering the reaction from the lost, why would I want to have a testimony that hinders me as a soul winner? Why would I want my witness for Christ to be tainted as one who compromises with the world? Since the lost is looking for something different than what the world offers, why should I be like the world?

Finally, let me compare music to other standards of living found in the Bible.
· The Bible does not specifically forbid gambling, but most Christians realize that this is an immoral practice. Why? There are Biblical guidelines and principles that prevent us from participating. Since the Bible is far more clear and specific about our music, why do so many professing Christians wish to dispute what the Bible has to say?
· The Bible does not specifically forbid the use of tobacco, but most Christians realize that they should not smoke or chew. Why? There are Biblical guidelines and principles that prevent us from participating. Since the Bible is far more clear and specific about our music, why do so many professing Christians wish to impugn what the Bible has to say?
· There are Biblical guidelines that we follow that cause believers to avoid “recreational” drugs. In Revelation, there are hints of drug usage being linked to demonism. Yet, the Bible does not hint about music. It is very specific and clear in its commandments, guidelines, and principles. So why do so many professing Christians wish to call these into question?
· There are Biblical commandments and guidelines that believers obey to abstain from alcohol. Yet the number of Biblical passages directly regarding music greatly outnumbers those about alcohol. So why do professing Christians accept the ones about alcohol and reject those about music?
· Why is it that I have never seen CCM cause a single believer to be more obedient to Biblical standards?
· Why is it that I have never seen CCM cause a single believer to be more faithful to church?
· Why is it that I have never seen CCM cause a single believer to be more obedient to Biblical soul winning?
· Why is it that I have never seen CCM cause a single believer to be more faithful to Biblical separation?

So, before you begin to attack me again for some of the stands about CCM – in any of its forms – please take the time to answer these questions – honestly and objectively. If you can answer these, you will better understand why I take the time to present the Biblical and secular facts about CCM on this forum. It will help you to understand why I warn the brethren [not the lost] about CCM.

[Thane]

· Since God has brought me personally out of CCM [used to be lead singer for Shielded, a CCM rock & rap band that blended the styles of Petra and dcTalk], should I disobey God and go back to that lifestyle?
No, you should never disobey His word.

· Since CCM was instrumental in getting me into a backslidden condition [such as staying out of church and neglecting prayer and the Bible], should I go back to that lifestyle?
Not if CCM was truly the reason for your backslidding, but how "Christian" is something that would cause you to deny Christ? I myself have a hard time with some of the "Christian" music out right now, not everything that claims to be CCM is CCM. Was and is the music Contempory Christian Music or Contempory Music?

· What about the brethren that God has used me to help them get freedom from CCM? Should they go back to their old lifestyle?
That is up to them, not you or me.

· One brother [who became so backslidden] was contemplating committing suicide last spring. His departure from the faith began when he started listening to Carmen, Steven Curtis Chapman, Michael Card, etc. Now, that I have been able to help restore this brother, should I send him back to one of the key items [namely CCM] that nearly destroyed him?
To answer this question without talking to this individual would not be smart.

· Seeing what I have personally seen in my own life and that of other brethren destroyed by CCM, should I not warn other brethren out of brotherly love and concern for their spiritual welfare?
You should tell them your testimony, and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

· I know Christians, including preachers, who used to be involved in the country music industry. They have no desire to be involved in the CCM form known as “Southern Gospel” due to how much the style is similar to country music. Are they wrong for abstaining from this sanitized secular of music, let alone lovingly warning others against it?
Warning others against it is up to them, not you or me, that is between them and God.

· I know Christians, including preachers, who used to be involved in the rock music industry [including “lite rock” or pop]. They have no desire to be involved in the CCM forms that mimic the styles they used to be involved with. One preacher [used to have long hair and played the bass guitar] told me that there is no such creature as “Christian rock”. In his words, “It is either Christian or it is rock. It cannot be both.” Are they wrong for abstaining from this sanitized secular of music, let alone lovingly warning others against it?
This so far is one mans opinion, not based in scripture, his decisions are his decisons, not ours.

· Why are people who are saved and leave the secular music industry [rock, country, rap, etc.], they will not embrace CCM at all? Why do they avoid it and warn others about it? Why won’t they consider it a “new song”?
To vague of a playing field, need some examples of people you are referring to here.

· I know that some one will say that these are just “weak” brethren. If you had the blessing to meet the people I am referring to, you would never say that about them. They are far stronger than others I have ever met. Should only those who are “weak” spiritually abstain from CCM? Is there another reason why these specific brethren avoid it and speak out against it?
I know of atleast one person you have called "weak" and full of sin, because he died while baptizing someone. This man happened to be a very good friend of one of my pastors and had a great heart for God, yet you went out on the internet, this forum and Josh's that I know of and blasted this man, yet you had never met him or talked to him. How can this be done in clearity. To answer the original question, I have no idea of their strength, and it is really none of my business, it is between them and Christ, they dont have to answer to me when they die, but to Him.

· Considering this, why would I want to get involved in CCM and have a testimony that would be a stumbling block to other brethren?
If you dont want to be involved in it, then dont, I never said you should.

· Why do people I meet who are lost mention that they realize that they will have to give up their styles of music [rap, rock, country, jazz, etc.] after they get saved? Why do they realize that Christians don’t listen to those types of music? Why do they have this perspective of Christians? Why do they have this level of discernment between worldly and Christian?
Because it has been beat into their heads for years. Yes, most of the music they listen to should be thrown out, the first thing I threw out was Slipknot and Manson. I thought we were talking about CCM here, you just jumped to secular music?

· Why do people I meet who are lost mention that they get turned off from churches that use CCM? As one put it, “If I wanted to listen to that style of music, I would stay at home and listen to my own music.”
I would love to meet this individual.

· When I was in Shielded, we had one guitarist from a local rock band listen to our music. He liked it and said, “Wow! That is good! It sounds similar to what I play!” This convicted me and helped to start to move me away from CCM. Shouldn’t there have been a clear distinction? Shouldn’t he had a different reaction if our music was Christian since he was a lost person?
Why do you keep mentioning the length of peoples hair, this is the second time in this post?! His opinion is his opinion, I think some of the music that was sung at my wifes old Church of Christ she attented sounds like Frank Sinatra, does this make it evil?

· A gentleman [with a 20-year old daughter] I was witnessing to yesterday told me that he quit attending a church because they were only interested in their band and putting on a show. His words, not mine. He said I was the first person to clearly explain the Gospel to him. He didn’t get saved, but a definite seed was planted. One of his first questions before he would come visit our church was, “You don’t play that so-called Christian rock junk, do you?” Why are he and many unsaved people I meet being turned off by CCM?
Sounds like this church has lost its focus. Need to put it back on God, not on the music or the show like so many have done lately. Willowcreek and weak pastors are to blame for most of this in my opinion. The music has nothing to do with it.

· When I come across people with a Wiccan, Satanic, or pagan background, why do they tell me that they believe CCM has “borrowed” their musical styles? Why do they consider Christians who use CCM as hypocrites? Why has this become a hindrance to them getting saved?
This sounds like a very weak excuse for not wanting to look into the "mirror".

· Considering the reaction from the lost, why would I want to have a testimony that hinders me as a soul winner? Why would I want my witness for Christ to be tainted as one who compromises with the world? Since the lost is looking for something different than what the world offers, why should I be like the world?
I have found some of my music in my gym (not CCM by anymeans, its Christian Speed Metal) to be a huge witness to others so I am not sure where you get this from. Never said you should be like the world, scripture says this also, but we do have to live in it.

· The Bible does not specifically forbid gambling, but most Christians realize that this is an immoral practice. Why? There are Biblical guidelines and principles that prevent us from participating. Since the Bible is far more clear and specific about our music, why do so many professing Christians wish to dispute what the Bible has to say?
Show me this about the music, and do not use your "trimble" example.

· The Bible does not specifically forbid the use of tobacco, but most Christians realize that they should not smoke or chew. Why? There are Biblical guidelines and principles that prevent us from participating. Since the Bible is far more clear and specific about our music, why do so many professing Christians wish to impugn what the Bible has to say?
Show me this about the music, it is very clear on the substances that harm our bodies.

· There are Biblical guidelines that we follow that cause believers to avoid “recreational” drugs. In Revelation, there are hints of drug usage being linked to demonism. Yet, the Bible does not hint about music. It is very specific and clear in its commandments, guidelines, and principles. So why do so many professing Christians wish to call these into question?
What does this have to do with CCM?

· There are Biblical commandments and guidelines that believers obey to abstain from alcohol. Yet the number of Biblical passages directly regarding music greatly outnumbers those about alcohol. So why do professing Christians accept the ones about alcohol and reject those about music?
Like I said, show me this!

· Why is it that I have never seen CCM cause a single believer to be more obedient to Biblical standards?
You never met me or anyone I train with, or you would not be able to say this. Or maybe you just dont want to, I will not speak to why you do and do not do what you do and do not do.

· Why is it that I have never seen CCM cause a single believer to be more faithful to church?
You never met me or anyone I train with.

· Why is it that I have never seen CCM cause a single believer to be more obedient to Biblical soul winning?
You never met me or anyone I train with.

· Why is it that I have never seen CCM cause a single believer to be more faithful to Biblical separation?
You never met me or anyone I train with.


Well I have answered all your questions just as you asked. I have done it honestly and objectively. I honestly do understand why you take the stance you do. It is because you choose to. God told you something about the band or music you were in and told you to get out and you did. I think its great that you were willing to listen to God so clearly. But that is and was between you and God, no one else. For every instance you can give me of someone leaving the church or turning on God because of music, I can give you one where they came to Him or back to Him because of it. What others do with their faith is between them and God. If music causes someone to stumble, then be sure not to make that guy stumble. No different than alcohol. I will be sure that if we ever meet in person, I will not play any music around you! At the same time, it is not up to me to know what makes each person on this planet stumble, if you have a problem with drinking and you see me have a drink, yet you say nothing, I am not responsible. People have to learn to speak up sometimes. I apologize, back to CCM. I am going out on a limb here and assuming that you are going to come back with some answers to my questions. I ask you to do the same thing as you asked me to do. Remember while you are doing this, I have no problem with true christian music. I have never said that I dont have a problem with CCM or what they say, but they are not preachers or teachers, they are musicians and artists.

[lovelace]

Bryan, I agree and disagree with you on this one. We agree on a lot of things brother, but I must give you my opinion on this one, followed by lack of biblical distinction.

I personally was moved tremendously by music in Church about 3 months ago. I was in Church ( a pregnancy center in King, N.C. ) listening to a song titled "Totally Surrender". We call it "praise and worship" music. I was filled with what I feel as the Holy Spirit and cried like a baby. When I hear that song today, It brings tears to my eyes. I find my self singing it from time to time. Do I like the old hymns? Yes I do! Our church sometimes plays both. Yes, we do have drums in the Church. Some songs they use them, some they do not. I have never been listening to it and thought, Satan is coming over me. The words to the song are critical!

I work in a factory that plays a different song genre every day. Country, classic rock, pop, oldies, etc.etc.
I hear songs every day, that use to not bother me, but now they do. I was in the gym a couple of weeks ago and "highway to hell" came on the radio. It bothered me. Maybe I am not listening to the right CCM artist? I do have to admit, some artist are playing both sides of the field. Ex....Pillar...I like their music and like the words to their songs....but, I don't consider them true Christian music. I don't listen to them as much as I did. They fail to mention God or Jesus in their songs. A song for God, could be a song for a girlfriend. I believe a lot of CCM artist are doing this, that is why I lean more toward "praise and worship" music.

I think a lot of this has to do with tradition, more than anything. Most Baptist Church's that I have been to have hymn books. My grandfather didn't believe in musical instruments at all in the church. Where does it speak of them in the New Testament. I only found it twice. Once in Luke and in Revelations. In Ephesians it states to make Melody in your heart. I think your stance either has to be one way or the other. No instruments in Church or allow them. I can understand more from someone that doesn't believe in them at all, vs someone that allows certain instruments. How can we say we want this music in Church and then the other 5 days of the week we listen to anything or everything?

I feel the same way about clothes. If it is tradition to dress up and go to Church, then I think you should respect that tradition and abide by their standards. It would be offensive to a fellow brother/sister in Christ to try and rebel against them in their house. My only grievance with this is the 24/7 life style. If you dress up every day, then I understand. To say you have to put on your "Sunday Best" to go to Church is distance to me. If it is a tradition that you dress up to go to Church, that is one thing. The problem I see with that is those that don't have dress clothes and feel out of place going wearing blue jeans and a t-shirt. God does not care of your Worldly possessions, but looks at your heart! He was poor and was traveling the land preaching on the streets and in the peasants houses. They were not dressed in robes and fine clothes. I have first hand knowledge of this because I was in the same boat as a child. We would go to my grandfathers house as a small child. My mother was single with two kids working in a factory. She had to borrow money from my grandfather many times. She would be wanting to leave back home on Sunday mornings, he would talk her into us going to Church. We had no dress clothes. We came as we were! Not only spiritually or lack of, but with what we had to wear. Blue jeans and a t-sirt. My grandfather always wore a suit to Church (although he took the jacket off once he got to preaching) and never told anyone they had to dress up. My opinion is you can be saved with dress clothes on or without! God doesn't care. If it is tradition, then I understand.
Gifts, Christmas trees, Santa Clause, wedding rings, new year eve celebrations...are all traditon and not biblical. Just like dressing the way you want, it will be a traditon at Church's. We have some that dress up and some that wear jeans and a nice shirt. Some teens wear t-shirt and jeans. I have only seen one person wear flip flops...LOL


My point to most of this is we are trying to separate rather than join. Tradition versus Contemporary. If you are believing in tradition, just say it. If you like Contemporary Services, just say it. God/Jesus were teaching love and togetherness with brothers/sisters of Christ. I could point out thousands of differences in what the Bible said or didn't say. We need to look at ourselves close in the mirror and critique ourselves first! I have many faults and don't agree with everything I see at my Church, but I pray about it and try to listen to my God.
Just my opinion! Again, when we get to heaven, we all are going to find out that our interpretation of the Bible may be different than what our Lord and Savior intended!

God Bless, Mike

[Thane]

Right there with you on the clothes brother. I am they guy wearing flip flops, then again, so is half the church. Our youth pastor even wore him to his wedding, there kinda a thing down here. We usually wear shorts, t-shirts, and flip flops, drink coffee in the auditorium (its not a sanctuary, the sanctuary is in your heart, the other is a building) and play football with the kids out front after service. You gotta come as you are, be authentic. If you dont wear slacks and shirts with ties during the week, why would you want to put up a facade on Sundays? Keep it real brothers!

[lovelace]

thane said:

Right there with you on the clothes brother. I am they guy wearing flip flops, then again, so is half the church. Our youth pastor even wore him to his wedding, there kinda a thing down here. We usually wear shorts, t-shirts, and flip flops, drink coffee in the auditorium (its not a sanctuary, the sanctuary is in your heart, the other is a building) and play football with the kids out front after service. You gotta come as you are, be authentic. If you dont wear slacks and shirts with ties during the week, why would you want to put up a facade on Sundays? Keep it real brothers!

Thane, my wife would not let me wear them. I have some ugly toes from years of playing sports. I can't even tell which way my toes are pointing...LOL

God Bless, Mike

[Thane]

According to my wife and family, I have "Heavy Duty Flintstone Bus Brakes"

[Shane Gaydon]

Would you wear flip flops and a tank top to a family member or friends funeral? How about a wedding? These are a couple of the questions that I asked myself concerning the dress issue. I also remember dressing up real sharp to go out to the clubs to get hammered. I would go out of my way to look my best to go out and drown myself in sin. Sometimes I would even go buy a brand new outfit just for that special night. I believe I should look my best or at least better than normal when I go to church. If I would dress nice out of respect for someone who has passed away or someone that is getting married I certainly feel that some respect should be taken into consideration when attending church. I also feel that if I would go out of my way to look nice to go live for the devil I should take even more of that same effort to look respectable for God. Notice I said my best. This does not imply someone has to go out and buy clothes they can't afford to go to church. But I do think they should wear the best that they have. This is showing reverance and respect to God. Yes, someone can be saved regardless of their dress or music preference but I don't understand how someone could feel comfortable showing up at church looking like they just rolled out of bed and threw on some rags. If that's all they have that's fine. But if they dressed that way on purpose it just amazes me. Let one of them get a job interview and see how fast they can clean up. Churches today are becoming looser and looser with their standards. They are conforming to the world at an alarming rate. They have become more interested in pleasing people than pleasing God. A lot of people have the view that Jesus is great until He becomes an inconvenience for them.

[pitbull]

Thane,
“No, you should never disobey His word.”
Thank you. That has been my entire point about CCM. If I were to start listening to CCM, I would have to disobey the Bible. If I were to quit speaking out against CCM, I would have to disobey the Bible.

”Not if CCM was truly the reason for your backslidding, but how "Christian" is something that would cause you to deny Christ? I myself have a hard time with some of the "Christian" music out right now, not everything that claims to be CCM is CCM. Was and is the music Contempory Christian Music or Contempory Music?”
This is one reason I call CCM Commericial “Christian” Music rather than Contemporary “Christian” Music. This industry gives me the impression that its god is the greenback rather than the God of the Bible.

”That is up to them, not you or me.”
No, how we live can affect them. No person lives as an island unto him/herself. Our testimony [how we live our lives] will affect them.

”To answer this question without talking to this individual would not be smart.”
I don’t understand that comment.

”You should tell them your testimony, and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.”
So, the fact that sharing my testimony and the facts that led me to the conclusion should be sufficient? Is that what you are saying? I should neglect the Biblical commandments to lift up my voice in warning? Being a preacher, shouldn’t I warn the brethren of wolves?

”Warning others against it is up to them, not you or me, that is between them and God.”
Romans 16:17

”This so far is one mans opinion, not based in scripture, his decisions are his decisons, not ours.”
It would interesting to find out what you consider Scriptural and what you consider opinion.

To vague of a playing field, need some examples of people you are referring to here.
Gary Edmunds, Philip Crow, Ron Sexton

”I know of at least one person you have called "weak" and full of sin, because he died while baptizing someone. This man happened to be a very good friend of one of my pastors and had a great heart for God, yet you went out on the internet, this forum and Josh's that I know of and blasted this man, yet you had never met him or talked to him. How can this be done in clearity.”
I know the story I posted, but I NEVER called him “weak”. Will you quit assuming? Will you quit putting words in my mouth? I have asked you that before and I am asking again for you to show me that respect. Can you do that?

”If you dont want to be involved in it, then dont, I never said you should.”
No, you just said I should disobey the Biblical commandments and responsibilities to warn the brethren. You want me to sin in that fashion against God and the brethren.

”Because it has been beat into their heads for years. Yes, most of the music they listen to should be thrown out, the first thing I threw out was Slipknot and Manson. I thought we were talking about CCM here, you just jumped to secular music?”
Is it that or is it that they realize there is a true difference between what is secular and what is Biblical? CCM is nothing more than secular music with sanitized lyrics. One thing you should have noted by now is that I have not said one thing about the lyrics of CCM. My whole point has been the music.

”I would love to meet this individual.”
Go soul winning and you will meet people like this on a weekly basis. I do.

”Why do you keep mentioning the length of peoples hair, this is the second time in this post?! His opinion is his opinion,”
The long hair on men just demonstrates another violation of Biblical guidelines as well as a rebellious spirit. It may be his opinion but it is based upon years of involvement in music. To most people, he would be considered an authority in his field due to the years of experience. For example, would it not be wise to get training advise from someone who has successfully trained with weights for almost 20 years?

“I think some of the music that was sung at my wifes old Church of Christ she attented sounds like Frank Sinatra, does this make it evil?”
Loaded question. First off, I have not said that CCM is “evil”. Those are the words that you keep putting in my mouth.

”Sounds like this church has lost its focus. Need to put it back on God, not on the music or the show like so many have done lately. Willowcreek and weak pastors are to blame for most of this in my opinion. The music has nothing to do with it.”
Amen! But the CCM music is walking hand-in-hand with such pastors. That is my point. Those are the ones whom I know who are supporting CCM.

”This sounds like a very weak excuse for not wanting to look into the "mirror".”
Huh? That doesn’t make any sense. One of the Satanists I met lived in a trailer court in Wintersville. He admitted he knew he was going to Hell when he died. He was willing to be honest about himself and his destiny. But he saw nothing different from how he was living and “Christians” he knew, especially when it came to music. That is an excuse, I will admit it, but it shows again how important our testimony is.

”I have found some of my music in my gym (not CCM by any means, its Christian Speed Metal) to be a huge witness to others so I am not sure where you get this from. Never said you should be like the world, scripture says this also, but we do have to live in it.”
Yes, we are to be in the world but NOT OF IT. CCM does not make that distinction. Our testimony should. People should notice that our unspoken testimony should have a unique distinction – people should know we are different without saying a word. Everywhere that I have had a secular job, I have experienced that and I am not saying that to brag but rather to praise my Savior.

”Show me this about the music, and do not use your "trimble" example.”
Reread the post that I made about the Biblical guidelines about music. Here, I will give it to you again. These are not my opinion but God’s.
1. Christian lyrics are to praise ONLY the Lord Jesus Christ — not man. (Psalms 9:2; 21:13; 28:7; 33:2-3; Matthew 16:23)
2. Christian music is ONLY for the Lord and His people — not the world. (Psalms 9:11; 137:1-4; Isaiah 12:2; 2 Corinthians 6:14, 17; Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16)
3. Christian music MUST be a new song — not an old song [i.e. worldly/secular pattern or style]. (Psalms 40:1-3; 144:9; 149:1; 2 Corinthians 5:17)
4. Christian lyric’s message MUST be clear — not vague or deceptive. (Acts 4:10-13; 9:29; 14:3; 18:26; 19:8; 1 Corinthians 2:4; 14:15; 2 Corinthians 3:12; Colossians 2:4)
5. Christian lyrics MUST emphasis the message — not the music or the musician. (Psalm 66:2; John 12:43)
6. Christian music is ONLY for the local church — not concert halls, bars, civic centers, nightclubs, etc. – excluding recordings. (Psalms 22:22; 149:1; Hebrew 2:12)
7. Christian music MUST feed the spirit and not the flesh. (John 3:6-7; 4:24; 1 Corinthians 14:15; Galatians 5:16, 24; Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16)
8. Christian musicians MUST be dedicated to the Lord — not worldly or egotistical – in a similar fashion as preachers and teachers since they have a similar responsibility (1 Samuel 16:7-12,14-18; 1 Chronicles 15:16; Matthew 5:16; Acts 13:22-23; Romans 12:1-2; Ephesians 5:18-21; Colossians 3:16; 1 Timothy 2:9,10)
9. Christian music MUST have all three components of music (melody, harmony, and rhythm) and melody is required to be the primary component. (Isaiah 23:16; 51:3; Ephesians 5:18-19)
10. Christian music SHOULD not use drums. If they do, they should use a rhythm that is not like those used of worldly styles [country, rock, rap, jazz, etc.] but rather similar to a march. [Romans 12:2; James 4:4; 1 John 2:15-16]

”Show me this about the music, it is very clear on the substances that harm our bodies.”
Done. Read the above. CCM does as much harm to the spirit as tobacco does to the physical. I speak this from personal experience as well as counseling sessions I have done in the past 13 years.

”What does this have to do with CCM?”
I am using a principle found in Psalms of contrasting different things to teach a point. I am showing you standards that you and I agree upon with a limited foundation in the Word of God and then comparing it to huge volume of what the Bible says about music.

”Like I said, show me this!”
That has been done. I have been doing that on this forum. Feel free to read the previous posts that I have posted from either my own notes or those of others.

”You never met me or anyone I train with, or you would not be able to say this. Or maybe you just dont want to, I will not speak to why you do and do not do what you do and do not do.”
So, are you trying to say that CCM has encouraged you and those whom you train with to be more faithful and obedient to church attendance, Biblical confrontational soul winning, Biblical separation [in opposition to ecumenical], and other Biblical standards? If that is true, then you are the first person I have met that has had this form of results in their lives.

”Well I have answered all your questions just as you asked. I have done it honestly and objectively.”
I will give you that you answered them honestly, but you were still very subjective..

“I honestly do understand why you take the stance you do.”
Finally.

“But that is and was between you and God, no one else.”
First as a Christian and second as a preacher, that is not a true statement. My testimony is important for how it affect the brethren and the lost. Also, I have the Biblical responsibility to lift up my voice to warn others. No Christian lives a private life, especially after God has called him to preach.

“At the same time, it is not up to me to know what makes each person on this planet stumble, if you have a problem with drinking and you see me have a drink, yet you say nothing, I am not responsible.”
You will be responsible before God for your actions in that situation due to sinning before a brother. Remember God even set up in the Mosaic Law a sacrifice for sin out of ignorance. Most Christians I meet are sinning out of ignorance because they have not been taught what the Bible actually says.

“People have to learn to speak up sometimes.”
People need to learn how important their silent testimony is so they don’t have to wait for others to speak up.

“I ask you to do the same thing as you asked me to do.”
Even though you don’t want to recognize it that is all I have done. I have abstained from interjecting my personal feelings in my posts. If I had trusted my personal feelings, I would be in 100% agreement with you. But I don’t depend upon my feelings but rather the Bible as my final authority. That is why you will notice I have not posted my feelings or opinions on this forum. This is why I have abstained from being subjective in my posts.

“Remember while you are doing this, I have no problem with true christian music. I have never said that I dont have a problem with CCM or what they say, but they are not preachers or teachers, they are musicians and artists.”
1. What are you objections to CCM?
2. Why do you still want to make a distinction in the Biblical responsibilities of musicians and that of preachers and teachers?

[pitbull]

Mike,
”Do I like the old hymns?”
Have you noticed that I have not discussed what I like and don’t like? Nor has anyone asked me about that.

“The words to the song are critical!”
Have you noticed that I have been discussing the music rather than the lyrics?

”Country, classic rock, pop, oldies, etc.etc. I hear songs every day, that use to not bother me, but now they do.”
Does the CCM equivalent both you also?

“I do have to admit, some artist are playing both sides of the field.”
What does the Bible say about the double-minded man?

“Ex....Pillar...I like their music and like the words to their songs....but, I don't consider them true Christian music.”
Why? What are your Biblical criteria? How are you able to discern this objectively?

“A song for God, could be a song for a girlfriend.”
How?

I believe a lot of CCM artist are doing this, that is why I lean more toward "praise and worship" music.

”I think a lot of this has to do with tradition, more than anything.”
Have you noticed me once depend upon tradition in my posts?

“Most Baptist Church's that I have been to have hymn books.”
I would say that 99% of the Baptist churches [actually Protestant with a “Baptist” name] I have been to accept CCM and that is only one of the reasons that I will not visit again.

“My grandfather didn't believe in musical instruments at all in the church. Where does it speak of them in the New Testament. I only found it twice. Once in Luke and in Revelations. In Ephesians it states to make Melody in your heart. I think your stance either has to be one way or the other. No instruments in Church or allow them. I can understand more from someone that doesn't believe in them at all, vs someone that allows certain instruments. How can we say we want this music in Church and then the other 5 days of the week we listen to anything or everything?”
That has been my point exactly about having a consistent testimony in and out of the church building. Also, you remember the Old Testament cannot be ignored because God gave it to us as an example. For example, in the Tabernacle and the Temple, God permitted musical instruments but restricted which ones and how many could be used [1 Chronicles 15:16,28; 16:5,6,42; 25:1,6; 2 Chronicles 29:25-26; Ezra 3:10; Nehemiah 12:27]. The same should be true for believers, since we are now the Temple of God.

”I feel the same way about clothes. If it is tradition to dress up and go to Church, then I think you should respect that tradition and abide by their standards. It would be offensive to a fellow brother/sister in Christ to try and rebel against them in their house. My only grievance with this is the 24/7 life style.”
1. I don’t honor traditions unless there is Biblical reason for them.
2. The church building should not be “their house” but rather God’s.
3. I preach and teach the Biblical standards regarding how believers should dress and they apply outside the church building as much as they do inside it. This is the same way I approach the Biblical standards about music.

“The problem I see with that is those that don't have dress clothes and feel out of place going wearing blue jeans and a t-shirt. God does not care of your Worldly possessions, but looks at your heart!”
Amen! Our outward appearance should be reflection of what is in our heart as a testimony to the lost and encouragement to the saved. I had one brother who had no money to speak of but three kids. He wanted to obey God in this area. I went to Goodwill and bought him three ties, two white shirts, two pants, belt, and shoe with $20 – and I got change back!!! I hate it when people use the economic excuse. Ever hear the excuse, “I am poor as dirt”? Well, dirt has more money that me and I am willing to spend my money on others! LOL!

“Gifts, Christmas trees, Santa Clause, wedding rings, new year eve celebrations...are all traditon and not biblical. Just like dressing the way you want, it will be a traditon at Church's. We have some that dress up and some that wear jeans and a nice shirt. Some teens wear t-shirt and jeans.”
I used to believe the same thing about how we dress being only tradition. Then I read the Bible and found out I was wrong.

“I have only seen one person wear flip flops...LOL”
I have too. He was a Protestant preacher and I accused him of being a false prophet like Balaam to his face. He doesn’t speak to me anymore.

”My point to most of this is we are trying to separate rather than join.”
AMEN! That is what the Bible commands.

“Tradition versus Contemporary.”
No, it is Biblical verse worldliness. That is my point.

“If you are believing in tradition, just say it. If you like Contemporary Services, just say it.”
It doesn’t matter what I like but what the Bible says. You [or anyone on this forum] haven’t even asked me what I live and I haven’t posted what I personally like. I have stuck to posting objective responses about what the Bible says rather than tradition or personal opinion. That is why I keep citing Bible passages over and over again.

“God/Jesus were teaching love and togetherness with brothers/sisters of Christ.”
Amos 3:3

“I could point out thousands of differences in what the Bible said or didn't say.”
Huh? Can you explain that?

“We need to look at ourselves close in the mirror and critique ourselves first!”
Amen! That is what I have been trying to encourage. Revival starts on an individual level, spreads to our families, and then to our congregations. What we do in our own lives WILL affect the lives of others.

“I have many faults and don't agree with everything I see at my Church, but I pray about it and try to listen to my God.”
Are they Biblical faults? If so, why aren’t you speaking up?

”Just my opinion!”
That is fine, but as you noticed I asked for people not to post their opinion as an answer to my questions.

“Again, when we get to heaven, we all are going to find out that our interpretation of the Bible may be different than what our Lord and Savior intended!”
We are NOT to interpret the Bible. That is a sin to do. We are to allow the Bible to interpret itself. That is the job of the Holy Spirit and a form of blasphemy to claim we can do the job of the Holy Ghost better than Him.

[pitbull]

Thane,
“its not a sanctuary, the sanctuary is in your heart, the other is a building”
“why would you want to put up a facade on Sundays? Keep it real brothers!”
Amen! That is why it is so important for us to obey Biblical standards [music, appearance, etc.] in regards to every aspect 7 days per week to be a testimony to the lost and an encouragement to the brethren.

[pitbull]

Shane,
“Churches today are becoming looser and looser with their standards. They are conforming to the world at an alarming rate. They have become more interested in pleasing people than pleasing God. A lot of people have the view that Jesus is great until He becomes an inconvenience for them.”

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
We need to get away from the excuses of personal opinions and traditions. We need to get back to what the Bible has to say about how we dress. Here are the three guidelines I have found, maybe you have found more:
(1) Modesty (1 Timothy 2:9, 2 Timothy 2:22)
(2) Distinction (Deuteronomy 22:5, 1 Corinthians 11:14-15).
(3) Identification with the Lord and not the world (1 Timothy 4:12, Romans 12:1-2, and 1 John 2:15-16).

I know that someone is going to misquote 1 Samuel 16:7 - "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

Please before you misquote this to me, remember that God admits “man looketh on the outward appearance”. Our appearance is an important part of our testimony to the lost and an encouragement to the brethren. This is one of the ways that they see how God has changed our heart. Anyone who tried to go against this important Biblical standard, ask them the following questions:
1. Are any of the lost people you know God?
2. Are any of the saved people you know God?
If they answer “no” to both of those questions, then their outward appearance matters.

[lovelace]

Brother we agree on a lot of topics, but I still disagree with you on this one.

I have went to weddings and funerals in casual clothes. It was what the person requested. I have seen friends get married in Confederate Uniforms before, that was their choice and their dress code. I can tell everyone here right now, when I die....come as you are! I will already be in heaven and could care less what you wear. Come and celebrate my life and my passing on the Heavenly side!

I want to clarify that I am not bashing a Church's or denominations choice to have a dress code. That is "their" choice. I believe on the other hand, as Christians we should not look down on those that do not put on their "sunday best". This is all opinionated and some biblical backing.

When I dressed up to go to a club, it was because the club had a dress code. When you go to a fancy restaurant, they have a dress code. Tradition is key in all of this! If a denomination wants that to be a key focus, then so be it. Dressing up for funerals and weddings is tradition. I believe in going to Church with clean hands and a pure heart! We sinners look at each other by exterior, God looks at us on the interior..our heart and soul! Don't get me wrong, I am going to Church this Sunday and will wear slacks and a tie, that is because that Church has a dress code, I am not going to rebel against their tradition. On the respect part of it, I respect God every day and 24/7. Not just the 2 hours I go to Church. I get up every Sunday morning at 5am to go and set up for Sunday service. I don't do this for myself or a pat on the back, it is for my God and obedience to him. If it point blank said to Dress in your finest, then I would. If my Church decided tomorrow they were going to have a dress code, I would abide by it.

If you dress up for work or an interview, what are you doing? The work place may have a dress code. You are dressing up to impress the interviewer. You are dressing up to look "business". I don't consider dressing up with a suit and tie as impressing God. This is not a job for me, I am praising him with my heart and soul, not my outside worldly possessions.

I have researched this a lot. It seems since the beginning the independent fundamentalist have had a dress code. I respect that and would honor their rules. I have noticed in their missionaries, they have a dress code. I think the bible states that when you have 2 or more brothers/sisters of Christ, you are having Church (not exactly the way it was said). So those going out witnessing or on missionaries wear dress clothes.

God made us all individually. No one looks just like the other. We all have different opinions on this. I would say that Thane and I will be in the minority on this one. Just my opinion. We need to be careful of distinction between biblical and opinion. Here are a couple of articles I read.

Standard for fundamental missionary:
POLICIES TO BE OBSERVED



1. As an applicant, you must be a born again, Spirit-filled believer with a definite personal call from God to the ministry of missions. You must be an active member of an independent, fundamental, Baptist Church and you and your church must agree with our mission’s doctrinal position, practices and policies.



2. You must be approved and commissioned by your local church and have the approval of your pastor.



3. You must have a happy and harmonious marital relationship if you are to enjoy a successful ministry.



4. You must allow God to teach you to be resourceful in the managing of your personal finances.



5. Those working in an area where a foreign language is spoken must acquire a good working knowledge of that language.



6. A copy of your monthly prayer letter is to be sent to the Mission Board, as well as your contributing churches and individuals. Every offering must be duly acknowledged to the contributor and the amount specified.



Missionaries using foreign language translations are expected to use those that are based on the reliable O.T. Masoretic Text and N.T. Received Text. Also, any translation work done by Truth For Today missionaries should be done on this basis.



DRESS CODE



Our dress code deals mainly with the “outside” upon which the world looks. It applies whether the missionaries are on deputation, furlough, or vacation. We expect them to be convicted that these are right everywhere.



Our missionaries are to conduct themselves as Christian ladies and gentlemen at all times. This is to show in their attitude, speech, actions, and appearance. Since their appearance is obvious to all, we are elaborating upon it. We seek to follow the guidelines established in the Word of God for His people. We believe that the Bible establishes at least three minimum standards for Christian dress:



1. Christian Dress in Modesty:

(I Timothy 2:9; II Timothy 2:22) It is true that God’s standards for men and women are high.



2. Christian Dress in Distinction:

(Deuteronomy 22:5; I Corinthians 11:14, 15) Men should dress like men and women should dress like women. Notice in Deuteronomy 22:5 the verse says that if we do not dress according to our sex, we are an “abomination unto the Lord our God.”



3. Christian Dress in Identification:

(Romans 12:1, 2; I John 2:15, 16) I Timothy 4:12 says, “Let no man despise thy youth, but be thou and example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.” God’s Word is so clear that we are to dress and conduct ourselves befittingly as His children.



Ladies:



The Bible clearly teaches that women are to adorn themselves in modest apparel. Your dresses and skirts must be long enough to completely cover your knees. The neckline of your dresses and blouses must not be revealing or suggestive. Do not identify yourself with the women of our day who are rebelling against being a woman by wearing unisex clothing.



Do not wear shorts, see-through clothing, tight-fitting, revealing clothing, or dresses or skirts with slits extending above the bottom of the knee. Should the need arise you can wear culottes. If you have a question regarding whether or not to wear something, it is safer to wear something of which you have no question. Keep your hair clean and well groomed.



Men:



Dress like Christian gentlemen. Be sure you are clean and neatly dressed. Keep your hair clean and well groomed. It must not touch your ears and/or your collar and must not in any way identify you with styles which have been set by the standards of this world. If you choose to wear sideburns or a mustache, they must not be extreme and must be kept neatly trimmed. Men are not to go without a shirt.



We expect our missionaries to be spiritually mature enough to discern appearance that would be considered worldly, to refrain from it and teach their children to observe the same.



REASONS FOR DISMISSAL FROM TFTBM



1. Involving ones self in liberal theology. Neo-orthodoxy, Neo-evangelicalism, the Charismatic or Tongues Movement, Ecumenicalism, 5-Point Calvinism (Tulip) and/or Arminianism.



2. The use of alcoholic beverages.



3. The use of drugs (except medicinal drugs).



4. Adultery or fornication including pornography.



5. Any type of sexual perversion (homosexuality, lesbianism, incest, etc.)



6. A change in position on the King James Bible.



ADDENDUM



We wish to emphasize that Truth For Today Baptist Missions is not a para-church entity. It is an integral ministry of the local, independent, fundamental Baptist Churches. Thus it is identified as an in-house service ministry to missionaries.



We believe that problems that may arise while the missionaries are on deputation, or serving on the field to which God has called them, that may warrant discipline must be referred to their local church that commissioned and sent them forth to the work. These matters must be handled by that church who in turn will advise Truth For Today concerning the action taken


another article
Dress Codes

by Jeffrey W. Hamilton

Why do we pull out our best clothing each Sunday in preparation for attending services? Many of us have our "Sunday Best" – those outfits reserved for Sundays and other special occasions. The thought of attending services in anything but our best clothing is so repulsive that many people would rather miss service than to show up in anything less than suitable.

To be sure, the peer pressure is great. In my younger days, women were expected to wear a modest cut dress to Sunday services. I remember the dismay that pervaded a congregation in my youth when a woman who wore only pants suits began attending services. It didn't seem to matter that pants suits had been in style for quite a while. In fact, I'm sure that every woman in the congregation had at least one pants suit in her closet. It also didn't matter that the woman didn't even own a dress at that time. Nor did the fact that no man would be caught in one of these outfits. People were upset that she wasn't wearing a dress to services.

Men also had a dress code. They were expected to wear at least a tie on Sunday, though a full suit was considered more proper when serving at the Lord's table or when preaching from the pulpit. You could get by without a tie at mid-week services, but never on Sunday. I knew of two congregations where a man would not be called upon to serve at the Lord's table if he was not wearing a suit.

We started asking why do we have such traditions? Frequently, I'm told that we ought to "give our best to the Master." I tried to find this phrase in the Scripture, but it doesn't exist. It seems to be based on some of the principles in the old law which regulated sacrifices. In Deuteronomy 17:1, the Israelites were told not to sacrifice flawed animals. God expected a Jew to offer up the best of his flock. Even in criminal justice, a robber repaid his victims with the best that he had (Exodus 22:5). Giving up something that won't be missed is not much of a sacrifice. A true sacrifice involves giving up something that we care about. It shows God that we care for Him more than any material possession.

Can this principle be applied to dressing up on Sunday? What sacrifice is being made when we try to look our best before men? Except for the poor, owning and wearing a nice outfit does not cause any hardship. Except for little boys, most of the people seem to enjoy putting on their finery. Therefore, dressing up on Sunday can't be compared to the sacrifices that the Jews made under the Old Law.

Another common argument is that Sunday is a special day and as such deserves special attire. Please think about this carefully: when we dress up on Sunday, are we striving to please God or are we trying to please the people who will see us? Jesus taught us to quietly serve God and not to call attention to ourselves (Matthew 6:1-5). We are not to show off our piety before men.

There is one passage that discusses attire at the worship service – James 2:1-13. James very plainly states that no one is to discriminate on the basis of what another is wearing. If we do so:

1) We show partiality, and so are judges with evil thought;

2) We dishonor the poor;

3) We break the law to love our neighbor as ourselves; and

4) We are showing no mercy.

Some believe this passage only applies to strangers in our midst. Regular members should dress appropriately. However, James makes no such distinction in this passage.

God is impartial between rich and the poor. Being rich does not give a person any special privileges (Job 34:19). Rather, God accepts all who fear him and do his will (Acts 10:34).

Being poor is not shameful. We can be short on funds, but rich in spirit (Revelation 2:9). Yet, people insult the poor when they require a minimum standard for attire in the worship service. Don't they realize that the poor will find their way to God before the rich? God has chosen the poor, so that no one can find cause to boast (I Corinthians 1:26-31). God promised to treat us as we have treated others (Luke 6:37-38). What awaits those who exclude Christians from participation in the worship because they think their attire is not satisfactory?

God has not set a standard for the quality of our attire. Some don't mind that a few cannot afford good clothes, but ... "at least wear the best that you have" or "at least wear clean clothes to church " However, take a look at James again. The poor man in the example came in "dirty clothes" (NASB), "shabby clothes" (NIV), or "filthy clothes" (NKJV). In John 7:24, Jesus said that judging by appearances was wrong. It is wrong to judge a man by just what we see and it is wrong to judge a man by just what he wears.

Does this mean that a Christian may wear whatever he desires? No, God does set guidelines that we must follow, not just in worship but in all aspects of our lives. In I Timothy 2:9-10 Paul instructs women select clothing that exemplifies three qualities: modest, propriety, and moderation. The word “modest” comes from the Greek word komios, and it refers to things that are orderly, showing good behavior, or respectable. “Propriety” is from the word aidos, and means to have a sense of shame, bashfulness, or reverence. “Moderation” is from the word sophrosune; it means having good sense, a soundness of mind, and a display of self-restraint. Sensual or lewd attire is ruled out by these guidelines. It doesn’t demonstrate the Christian’s way of life (Ephesians 4:17-24). Nor should Christians select outfits that puts their wealth on display (I Peter 3:3-4). Nor should we chose clothes that demonstrate rebellion against the standards of society (I Thessalonians 5:14). Society does have informal rules of conduct governing correct behavior, including respectfulness demonstrated in the selection of clothing.

God sets the guidelines, but we run into problems when fashion changes. There was a time that you would never see a salesman without a tie. Today, the wearing of ties is becoming increasingly rare. At one time, women always wore dresses – especially in public. Now dresses are reserved for formal occasions. Yet, some brethren, remembering the old standards, insist that anything different is disrespectful. We must be very careful not to enforce our opinions as if they were God’s commandments (Matthew 15:9). If a congregation insists that its members wear ties or dresses, what will they do when ties and dress go out of fashion? And they will go out of fashion – they certainly weren’t around in Jesus’ day. When Christians set specific standards not found in the Scriptures, is it any different from the Pharisees establishing detailed rules concerning what precisely constituted work on the Sabbath or how to avoid becoming unclean?

If we take a look at the song, "Give of Your Best to the Master," we can find excellent instruction on what true sacrifice involves. We need to dedicate the best time of our lives to God instead of time that is convenient for us. Solomon instructs us to serve God while we are still young and have the energy to serve well (Ecclesiastes 12:1). If we wait until we are older, we won't be able to do as much as when we were young. We have so little time on the earth. We need to spend that time wisely (Ephesians 5:16, Psalm 90:12).

We also need to give God the best place in our lives. Jesus instructs us to put the kingdom of God first in our lives (Matthew 6:33). The church is more important than food, clothing or other things that we may deem as necessities. Paul instructed Timothy to give himself wholly to reading, exhortation, and to doctrine (I Timothy 4:14). If we have our priorities straight, all of our day-to-day cares will take care of themselves. However, if things like work becomes more important to us than serving God, we will lose out on the most important thing of all--our souls.

God is not asking for anything more than what He has already given us. He gave the best that He had, his Son, so that we might be brought back to His fold. God gave us such an incredible gift, not because we were something special, but because we were so undeserving of His love. Even when we return the best that we have to God, it is too small a gift to repay God for his rich blessings. Can we give back to God anything less than the best that we have? We must give God our true best, not fancy clothing at worship, but whole-hearted service to our Master.

[Thane]

Dress Code
Quick and easy version.

I dont dress up for anyone, unless my wife askes me to put on something nice for a date. So if that is not who I am on a normal basis, why would I want to act falsely (which is a lie) infront of my church brothers and sisters? You have to be authentic. Do you honestly think God cares if you dressed up for church! Think about that, then think about being of the world and in the world.

Now the music point
Quick and easy version

Yes, the music I have choose to listen to has made me more obidient to the Word of God, so you can now say you have talked to that person. You are going to keep bringing this up, and thats fine. You all know how I feel, these discussions are getting no where, so for now, I will not be answering anymore posts on music. Love yall, but I have much better things to do right now.

Whos up for a game of cribbage? LOL

[pitbull]

Does this mean that a Christian may wear whatever he desires? No, God does set guidelines that we must follow, not just in worship but in all aspects of our lives.

Fifth, you opinion doesn't hold water unless you wish to eliminate me and others from the argument. I have four suits. How much did I pay for them? Nothing, all donated. I have about 20 ties. How much did I pay for them? Nothing, all donated. I also shop a lot a Goodwill since I am poor by your standards. God provides though. I know of other people. One other preacher I know has five kids and less than $10,000 annual income, yet he follows the same Biblical guidelines. Poverty is not a legitimate excuse. As mentioned before, I purchase two complete outfits and three ties for one brother for less than $20.

[pitbull]

Thane,
How you dress should be a reflection of your heart. It should be just one aspect of your testimony. Since people cannot see you soul, your appearance gives them a glimpse. That is all that I have ever said.

As to music, thank you for being the exception to the rule. When you look at the ten different guidelines that I have found in the Bible, is drums the only one we disagree upon? If so, I don't see what the big deal is that you have made out of this.