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Post by Thane on Nov 4, 2005 1:58:28 GMT -5
I have been involved in many different "organizations" over the years, and I use that term loosely. Everything from Skin to Skate to Drugs to Real Family Life, and never in all that time, dealing with all those different people have I ever been associated with a group of individuals that argues and disagrees with one another as much as so called "Christians" do. Why is this? Jesus only gave us two commandments
Matthew 22:37-40 (New American Standard Bible)
37And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
38"This is the great and foremost commandment.
39"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
40"On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
Is it not possible to follow these? I hear a lot of talk about speaking in truth and love, but if most of that talk was really spoken in truth and love it would not be said. Think about the things you say to people after making that statement, then ask yourself, would I say that to Christ, would I say that to myself, would I say that to my spouse? I believe it is a great way to get peoples guards down, so that someone can fill their pride by standing very tall on themselves. Its a cop out, kinda like telling your pastor that "I would love to tithe, but!" everything after the "but" is meaningless, it means that you really don't have it in your heart to do, or you would find a way to get it done. It would have been very easy for Christ to tell God, "You know I love you, but, hanging on that cross is really going to hurt." He didn't do that, and neither should we. Pride is a Christians biggest flaw, our largest hurdle. We all love to quote scripture, we love to "speak in truth and love" but what we are really doing is filling our own Pride. You are not going to agree with me on this initially, but deep down we all know its true more times than not. Over this last week I have been forced to stare in a huge mirror, God has not let look away from it, and I have seen some things that would make Satan scream. I look out into the world after wards and see the same thing in my friends and others I know. Its not our job to tell them of their wrong doings, its our job to lead them to Christ, let him make the plant grow, all we can do is plant and water it.
1 Corinthians 3:6 (New American Standard Bible)
6I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
If we are to follow the two commandments I listed in the beginning, everything else will fall in-line, and always remember, its perfectly alright to admit that you do not know something.
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Post by Shane Gaydon on Nov 4, 2005 7:22:55 GMT -5
He gave us more than two commandments. Maybe the two you listed are the only ones you care to follow. That's the reason for the constant arguments. Lukewarm Christians that want to do whatever they want regardless of what the Bible says. They want the title "Christian" but want nothing to do with the responsibilities and lifestytle changes that come with it.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 4, 2005 8:11:09 GMT -5
So, do you not want to obey the other commandments given to us by the Lord Jesus Christ in the Bible - tithing, soul winning, standards, separation, church membership, etc.? If you are going to obey the two commandments that you mention, then you should be obeying the other commandments in the Bible due to your love.
For example, Jesus has told us that if you truly love Him, you will obey His commandments. [John 14:15, 23-24] That clearly includes soul winning. When we do not obey this commandment, we are demonstrating our lack of love for Him, our lack of desire to be like Christ, our unwillingness to following Christ [Matthew 4:19], and the fact that we are not abiding in Christ [John 15:1-8]. This is a sad testimony for the believer.
If we don't obey the commandment of soul winning we clearly aren't loving others. Jude 22 best describes this. If we do not want to see souls in Hell, we will warn them about it. It is amazing how we will have enough love to warn people not to eat something bad, but we will not warn them about something that will affect them for all eternity. If you truly love the other person, you will tell them how to get saved.
Maybe I am just missing you point. Otherwise, it seems like you are trying to justify not obeying the Bible. Which is it?
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Post by Thane on Nov 4, 2005 8:44:38 GMT -5
Soul winning - "Love your neighbor as yourself" As you described in Jude 22, if we do not want to see souls in Hell, well I dont want to see myself in Hell, therefore, I dont want to see others there either.
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Post by marksunter on Nov 4, 2005 8:50:43 GMT -5
Brother thane, I feel ya.... your point is well taken and also a good example exists with the posts right after yours. I understand what you meant without picking apart what you didnt say. I will also go a bit farther,,, I am not sure why so called self appointed christians find it necessary to point out arguements, and faults or sins by others. Truth be known, I know this will get people angy but, it is the ones that quote and spout and judge, are the worst people I know. I would rather hang around a buch of sinners and haters that say and act like sinners and haters then people who are essentially hypocrites. Dont get me wrong, I really respect people that have taken the time to learn the scripture, I really do respect that, its just some or most, cant have a decent two way conversation about issues. Maybe its kinda like the really smart person that is to dump to come in from the rain.
Sorry for the ranting, it is just something bugs me....
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Post by Thane on Nov 4, 2005 8:59:28 GMT -5
Love ya Mark!
Luke 15:1-9 (New American Standard Bible)
1Now all the tax collectors and the sinners were coming near Him to listen to Him. 2Both the Pharisees and the scribes began to grumble, saying, "This man receives sinners and eats with them."
3So He told them this parable, saying,
4"What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?
5"When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6"And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!'
7"I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
How can you follow the "Great Comission" if you are not able to relate or communicate with the lost? Your not going to find them by preaching to the ones that are also trying to find them. Yes our salvation is of the utmost importance, but if there is anything in life that you are not able to take with some joy, you need to look at it again. Everything here is temp. and I already know where Im going when its over, your exactly right, I am going to enjoy every minute of my time here. If you mouth and face dont light up when you tell people about Christ, you need help! Frowning and finding the lost should not go together.
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Post by Doug Parrish on Nov 4, 2005 10:03:26 GMT -5
Brother Thane, I'm not going to try and judge, because quite honestly I don't know enough about you to make any judgements (Paul tells us to judge our brothers and sisters in the Lord, but it's to help them grow). I'm just going to re-state something I said in an earlier post, and maybe try to clarify that a little.
This whole division thing is often a product of two or more folks of different spiritual levels of maturity trying to reach agreement or understanding on a topic. Imagine this, you as an adult trying to figure out why your 5-year-old says or does the things he does, but imagine you as a 5-year-old trying to get inside the head of a grown-up. Now try and imagine the same two scenarios with a teenager. As much as I tried, I couldn't ever quite figure my stepdaughter out when she was a teen. My five-year-old boy, well, let's just say that's way different than with my stepdaughter, but just as difficult. I heard a great little anecdote once that went something like this: "When I was little I thought my dad was the smartest man on earth. When I was a teenager I thought he was the dumbest man on earth. I was amazed how much he learned by the time I was 25."
Back to the post I made earlier in a different topic: Folks at different spiritual maturity levels probably won't see eye-to-eye. Those folks that are at the same maturity level will see more eye-to-eye. But as folks reach higher and higher spiritual maturity levels, it's amazing how much they talk alike, act alike, and interpret scripture alike. There's not but one Word, one Savior, one Spirit. He leads us all to the same destination, just not down the same path (some go through teenage rebellion, some do not, some come from broken homes, some do not, you get the point).
Okay, I'm getting long-winded. Let me know if this doesn't make sense.
God Bless. Doug P.
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Post by marksunter on Nov 4, 2005 10:56:58 GMT -5
I am note sure I really buy into that Doug... but I do very much appreciate you explaining this. It was done in a way that was not condesending or judgmental. It does explain to some extent the why, and does give me some insight. Thank you.
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Post by Doug Parrish on Nov 4, 2005 12:38:09 GMT -5
Hey, Mark. That's cool. We don't have to agree all the time to be brothers.
God Bless. Doug P.
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Post by marksunter on Nov 4, 2005 13:10:48 GMT -5
hey doug we meet at the raw nationals, your a good guy.
see ya mark
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Post by Thane on Nov 7, 2005 6:21:24 GMT -5
I will agree with Doug on that, we do not have to agree to be brothers.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 7, 2005 8:24:37 GMT -5
marksunter, I agree with your post about hanging out with sinners, though I will only do it for the opportunity to share the Gospel rather than fellowship. I get more respect from the lost at times than from the saved.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 7, 2005 8:27:54 GMT -5
Thane, “How can you follow the "Great Comission" if you are not able to relate or communicate with the lost? Your not going to find them by preaching to the ones that are also trying to find them.” That is the purpose of the Biblical commandment of soul winning, but we must not violate the doctrine of separation while doing it. Remember what Jesus warned if salt has lost its flavor or distinction.
“Yes our salvation is of the utmost importance, but if there is anything in life that you are not able to take with some joy, you need to look at it again. Everything here is temp. and I already know where Im going when its over, your exactly right, I am going to enjoy every minute of my time here. If you mouth and face dont light up when you tell people about Christ, you need help! Frowning and finding the lost should not go together.” Amen to that last good statement! Christians need to learn to serve out of love, not duty. Christians need to learn that true joy is by obedience, not compromise. That is why Paul and Silas were able to sign hymns at midnight while in prison.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 7, 2005 8:31:07 GMT -5
Doug, You are right on the mark. When we practice Biblical judgment of other believers [we are not permitted to just the lost since they are already under judgment], it is not for the purpose of making ourselves look better in our own eyes but for the purpose of restoring a fallen brother or sister. We need to do this instead of "kicking them while they are down". The lack of judgment in Christian churches today has lead to the moral decline and compromises we see in congregations across this once great nation.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 7, 2005 8:31:57 GMT -5
Doug, "That's cool. We don't have to agree all the time to be brothers." Amen to that! But we do have to have major agreement for true brotherly fellowship.
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