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Post by firefightertom322 on Oct 14, 2005 18:50:13 GMT -5
I feel strongly that using performance enhancing drugs are wrong. They have terrible side effects and are illegal here in the U.S.A.. I am just curious what a poll would show. I have had friends that do but they know where I stand on this issue.
Thanks, Tom Isbell
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Post by lovelace on Oct 14, 2005 20:29:54 GMT -5
I was wondering when someone would push the envelope! Tom, you know my story, but many may not. I will post you something I posted a couple of months ago concerning this. Since then, I have really prayed about it. This helped me come to the conclusion I needed to change my life. I need to Praise God first and I don't need anything else. Only problem I have is where does the line start or end. If someone is taking an anti-depressant that is prescribed, is he or she not a good Christian. This can get touchy. Is creatine, tribulus, and other herbs o.k. I am still tired all the time, but I just pray about it everyday. I do go back to the doctor in January to see how my levels are at that time. Last time I went, they were at the level of a 65-70 year old...I am 34. Here is the post I made several months ago. Again, I must say...I personally do not feel as if I need then anymore. Hopefully, God will take care of me. Another question is if you're a true Christian and have been saved, taking Steroids is a sin or not? I would think so! Please excuse my attitude at the time of this email. I have changed since then. I was hurt and upset. I may have used language that is not Christian like today! Post below: Mike Lovelace TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I have been debating bringing this up to the forefront for sometime and have not. I had discussed this three months ago with my wife and we chose not to bring up publicly our personal life, but since then I have decided to go public to clarify any rumors! If I have told you my/our situation, then consider yourself a confident that we trusted you with our personal decisions. If you found about this through the grapevine, consider your source not very trust worthy!
For about three years now, I have had problems with being tired all the time. Thought it was chronic fatigue syndrome. Every day, I take a two hour nap before I go workout. I am 34 years old and new this was not normal. About two years ago, I went to the doctor and had test ran. They told me my testosterone level was very low normal and that maybe just losing some weight would help. I lost weight, but didn’t feel any better. My wife and I have been trying to have children, so being tired all the time and no energy, didn’t help things on the baby making end;-) I have been to many doctors and was offered many anti-depressants. I didn’t think I was depressed!
A little over three months ago (the week of the april deadlift meet), I had some test done by a local physician. The doctor took my levels and said that my testosterone level was that of a 55-60 year old man. They encouraged me to take androgel. They suggested the lowest dosage available for two months, then be rechecked. After several emails to William DePorter and Jeff Jobes, I decided to go ahead and see if it would work. The AAU said as long as it was prescribed and proper documents filled out, it would be o.k. I NEVER took these in hopes of increasing my lifting numbers, it was purely medical. I was at the end of my rope mentally and physically.
After taking the androgel for two months, I went back to the doctor and talked to them. They asked me if I felt it was helping. I told them the only thing I felt was bloated. I had gained from 298 to 311 in two months and was hungry all the time. They gave me another months prescription and told me to double the dosage. I had already spent over $2000 dollars on test and was paying $183 dollars per month for androgel. I did not double the dose. It was not cheap and there is no generic. They set me up for another test at the end of the third month. When I went back to be tested, the results came back astonishing. My level had dropped in half. It went from 360 to 180. I was told that it was the level of a 65-75 year old? They scheduled me to see a specialist, endocrinologist. After the visit with the specialist, he told me he was really concerned with a couple of things. First, if my wife and I was trying to have kids, then we did NOT need to be on androgel. Second, in his opinion my body had shut down producing its own testosterone. He suggested I completely come off all supplements and prescribed medication for six months and retake the test. He was very anti-supplements that were not FDA approved. So I quit immediately. So long story short, I took androgel for three months and have been off for about 4-6 weeks. I personally feel as if I did not gain anything from taking it.
I am bringing this up for several reasons, one is rumors or accusations of what I have taken or reason behind it. I have NEVER taken anything that was not approved on any organizations banned substance list. I have taken ephedrine before, but when it was banned for a meet..quit taking it for the meet. Everyone knows my beliefs on ephedrine. I was prescribed this the day before my AAU meet last year, but chose not to take until after the contest. Funny thing, I was drug tested. LOL I have always competed in drug free meets and will continue to do so. I also compete in non-tested meets, because I like to test myself against everyone. I don’t hide behind being drug free and don’t feel as if I need to brag about it. Those around me and close to me, know my goals and respect my opinion as do I theirs. I did bring this up for those that may medically need this and it may help them. I know a lot of diabetics end up having low testosterone and are eventually prescribed andro. I was upfront to those close to me and ALL my gym members and close friends. I directed this to the AAU because I did not want to jeopardize the integrity of their rules. My goal is to have a healthy family one day and total 2000 drug free and single ply. I hope everyone respects my choices and if you do not agree with them, that is your opinion. I am not asking for your moral support, but have made decisions on what was best for myself and family.
I enjoy lifting and have really met some great people in the sport. Sometimes all the bashing and back stabbing gets me down and I have thought of calling it quit. I have always said, “If I hate my job, I will quit and find another”. Same goes for power lifting. My best numbers in meets have been before I took androgel, so all the BS of my numbers have been put to rest. I plan on training the hardest I ever have for the AAU meet in Dec. and will be glad to piss in a cup. My ultimate goal is to squat 800 or better walking the weight out in single ply. I don’t believe the list is too long in N.C. for this accomplishment. I am not asking for anyones approval! Just wanted to get this off my chest.
I will leave you with the words to a song I heard tonight!!!
Train hard, Mike
We’re caught in a trap I can’t walk out Because I love powerlifting too much baby
Why can’t you see What you’re doing to me When you don’t believe a word I say?
We can’t go on together With suspicious minds And we can’t build our dreams On suspicious minds
So, if an old friend I know Drops by to say hello Would I still see suspicion in your eyes?
Here we go again Asking where I’ve been You can’t see these tears are real I’m crying
We can’t go on together With suspicious minds And we can’t build our dreams On suspicious minds
Oh let our love survive Or dry the tears from your eyes Let’s don’t let a good thing die
When powerlifting, you know I’ve never lied to you Mmm yeah, yeah
Elvis Rocks!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
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Post by Shane Gaydon on Oct 15, 2005 12:18:26 GMT -5
This thread has 41 views and 4 votes. Tom you should have asked this on the APF Outlaws board. You would have gotten 50 responses in the first 15 minutes from posting it. LOL I personally think that if you are going to glorify God through your lifting you must do it with your God given abilities. The minute you begin to use illegal drugs to enhance your performance you are no longer glorifying God but only yourself.
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Post by firefightertom322 on Oct 17, 2005 12:25:08 GMT -5
I am not planning on visiting the outlaws site. Checked it out once and didnt like the language.
I did want to mention one thing: Using something such as andro creme for medical reasons is o.k. to me. With it you are just trying to get back to normal levels. I didnt have mike in mind when I started this poll. Just wanted to bring it up. Tom Isbell
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Post by lovelace on Oct 17, 2005 15:51:19 GMT -5
Tom, I didn't post that to counter your post. Just to state that since being saved, I have turned it over to my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. He will help me going forward. All things are possible through him! How I felt at one time, vs now. God Bless, Mike
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Post by lovelace on Oct 17, 2005 19:28:22 GMT -5
another note, no one can tell what you vote for. The moderators can only see whom voted, not what you voted for...so if you're a member....we can't tell how you vote.
God Bless, Mike
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Post by Doug Parrish on Oct 19, 2005 9:14:11 GMT -5
I'll be happy to tell yall how I voted. I clicked that first little selection where it says "absolutely" Now, Tom, Mike, to keep blood pressures low, I'll clarify a bit. If a doctor prescribes something, then it's legal, it's medicinal, and it's not performance enhancing (unless the doc works for Balco). Docs rarely prescribe in doses that would aid athletic performance.
One big-time question: by performance enhancing drugs, were you limiting your line of thinking to steroids (and prosteroids), or were you also thinking along the lines of ephedra, trib, etc? Admittedly, I load up on caffeine (usually a minimum of 2 mt dews and a xenadrine efx before a meet). I'm careful about not exceeding anti-doping levels. What do yall think? Am I being hypocritical? (Shoot straight, I have thick skin.)
God Bless all. Doug P.
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Post by firefightertom322 on Oct 19, 2005 9:32:28 GMT -5
I just want to say that mike and I are not really debating anything. We are in agreement. I think that ephedra is illegal in tested feds. That makes it wrong to me. Trib. is ok and doesnt do much from what I am told. Caffeine: I could not survive without it! MOst of these things dont fit into the drug category that I was thinking of. Andro does but not if a person is taking it for medical reasons. The playing field is still level in that case.
good post doug! You have put a lot of thought into it. Tom Isbell
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Post by firefightertom322 on Oct 19, 2005 9:33:26 GMT -5
Here is how stupid I am. What is an example of a pro steroid? Tom Isbell
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Post by christaylor on Oct 19, 2005 10:28:09 GMT -5
I am not new to opneing myself up for negative comments but I will answer to this post. I have not read all the posts but I got a certain general idea that you all think it's wrong.
Here is what I will agree with you on. I believe it is wrong to take stuff to promote your appearence, and I beleive it is wrong to take stuff when it is illegal. I also believe it wrong to take anabolics that will raise your test levels over what is in the norm range for your age and physical activity..
Not too long ago when I wasn't a believer I used a trememdous ammount of anabolics and sold them as well, I sold them to afford the ammount ( i thought) I needed to injest . This successfully shut my production of testosterone down to the basement. So after I was saved and stopped using all the anabolics I had some issues. I didint neceserilly get smaller or weaker (still progressed and hit pr's) but other things in life were just not right. I had zero libido and being married we wanted to try and concieve. I feel your pain Mike I have been there when you need to try to get romantic at the right time of the month and you just want to go eat a pizza.. After consulting with Dr.'s I was put on a small doseage of testosterone which instantly improved my issues and made me feel normal again. I was also put on HCG and after about 7 months we got pregnant Praise God !!! All this time my test levels were between 300-400.. 3 months after we had my daughter we learned we were pregnant again Praise God !!! Just recently (last month) I had my levels checked again since I noticed some things weren't Ummm right.. They had dropped back to the basement again, seems my recpetors are downregualted or something so I was placed on a stronger test, from Gel to now Injectable 200 mg / week.
So now tell me is this wrong to take this? if so I believe it is wrong to take insulin if your a diabetic, or it is wrong for heroin addicts to take methadon, or reformed alchoholics to get liver transplants.. In short I believe testosterone useage is fine as long as it isn't abused and is prescribed by the Dr.
I believe it really comes down to you and God, if you are a believer and you feel by the Holy Spirit that he doesn't want you to use something then yes you might be in sin..
CT
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Post by lovelace on Oct 19, 2005 10:47:11 GMT -5
Chris, it takes a lot of fortitude to come on here and tell your story. I am sure you have seen a lot and seen the destruction of abusing steroids..especially if you sold them. I go back to the doctor myself come January to see how my levels are at after 6 months of not being on androgel. I honestly do not think there is a problem if you're trying to get back to normal levels for your age. I had some criticizing me , thinking it was for enhancements for lifting. I have always been against steroid use. I have to admit, at one time...I was close to using myself. I had talked my wife into the idea. In fact, I had already priced out needles. Praise God, that I did NOT ever go that route. I can tell you right now, I am in the same boat as you. It is not fair for your family to struggle, because of your medical condition. That is how I felt about myself and wife. To be honest with you...she is going to kill me...she loved it when I was on androgel..LOL We still want to have kids ourselves, but if it is not in our cards...we are going to adopt. I struggle every day with a two hour nap, before I go workout! I admire your honesty!
To be completely honest with you....I even in my mind questioned if you were currently taking! I know it is not right to judge, I asked for forgiveness to even question your abilities. I have been questioned in the past and was doing the same thing...so please forgive me and know I have asked for forgiveness. When you become the level of lifter you're at now, others are going to question it. Especially since you have admitted past wrong doings. I also have used the diabetic scenario. It does enhance your ability to function. I think it is o.k. to take insulin! I will continue to pray and hope God gives me the correct answer in the future! I feel stronger than ever now, so maybe he is working miracles on me!
God Bless Brother, Mike
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Post by elitebarbell on Oct 19, 2005 10:53:50 GMT -5
Thank you Chris for an excellent and honest reply. I do not consider what you shared as even being on performance enhancing drugs. In your case i see it as prescribed medication for a medical condition.
Personally, I have never taken a performance enhancing drug and I probably never will. This is mostly because at my size (400+) I have enough other health factors to deal with. I DON"T KNOW if taking these drugs, (without a doctors prescription is wrong or not) but like Chris, I DO KNOW that the same Holy Spirt living within me lives within you all. If we are open to his Him, He will guide us in our decisions.
Scott Nutter Elite Barbell
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Post by firefightertom322 on Oct 19, 2005 11:27:01 GMT -5
Nice post scott. I feel led to stay away from anything that can cause me health problems.
Chris: Thank you for sharing your story. I dont think what you are doing is wrong at all. There are reasons to use steroids: prednisone is one that is commonly used for many ailments. ...BUT there are some nasty side effects to it also. A doctor can weigh the consequences of side effects vs. the medical problem. Most of us dont have that kind of education.
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Post by marksunter on Oct 19, 2005 11:48:13 GMT -5
Let me pose a question.....the survey says (at the top) is it wrong for a Christian to use performance inhancing drugs......
Does this mean, if you use performance enhancing drugs, you are not a Christian.
Also, define performance enhancing..... caffiene, nicatine, B12, others..... these all help with performance.... are we picking and choosing are enhancements.
just a thought
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Post by firefightertom322 on Oct 19, 2005 13:22:35 GMT -5
that is not what I meant. drugs are the topic not food,vitamins etc.. Tom
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