Westside vs Progressive

[Thane]

Where do yall stand on this? Which method prevails as your favorite or do you mix them? Anyone ever tried a Metal Militia Bench program? Where do you get your programs from? How did they come into being, who developed them? Ever had any results from a cookie cutter program?

[vince148]

thane said:

Where do yall stand on this? Which method prevails as your favorite or do you mix them? Anyone ever tried a Metal Militia Bench program? Where do you get your programs from? How did they come into being, who developed them? Ever had any results from a cookie cutter program?

Great questions, Thane. In 30 years experience, I believe I've progressed faster incorporating Westside principles than I did using progressive systems. In other words, I wish I knew then what I know now. However, I do not train straight Westside (as you can tell by my log). It is my own hybrid that I've developed from various training methodologies, although it is strongly influenced by Westside. For me, it is training and studying. Find out what works best for you. Keep what works and discard what doesn't. Try something different until you find what works. Learn something from every cycle and every meet.

Personally, I think beginners will progress with anything, so there is nothing wrong with building a base using a progressive system. However, for those that would strive to be powerlifters, I would not recommend going over 5 reps. All high reps ever did for me was make me too tired to handle heavy weights. I just don't see the need to do more than 5 reps if you're powerlifting, at least not on your core movements. Eventually, stagnation occurs and it will be time to train your nervous system and muscles in a new way that incorporates different methodologies if you are to continue progressing.

As a side note...Ffor those that are training the main lifts 2-3 days a week, it would be a good idea to go on the powerlifting evolution website as it has many articles about powerlifting training of the old time lifters. I used to get these magazines in my teens and that is how I developed many of my earlier programs until I felt seasoned enough to develop my own. It's pretty straight forward stuff as we didn't have all this modern stuff of today, not even bands or chains.

[ernie]

Thane I dont really necessarily use either...I mix olympic lifting, powerlifting, and strongman training all in one...I have my own thing brother...pm me if you want and ill share what i do!

[ted butler]

Hi Thane, I agree with Vince, his advice is right on. I also have 25 + years experience. I once was at a seminar conducted by one of the major D1 strength coaches and he started off by saying he had stolen from the best while putting together his on program. I have also stolen from the best, and I use a combination of several different methods. As Vince stated you must experiment. Take what works for you and throw out the rest. Ted

[pitbull]

I personally used a modified HIT style of training. Many give Author Jones the credit, but he only made it popular. The various forms of volume training that I have tried always lead to overtraining and injury. HIT allowed me to break the 300# BP barrier.

[Doug Parrish]

Thane, are you looking to make changes?

I don't think you'll find a cookie cutter workout that works for everyone. Also, if you follow WS over the years, it's not chiseled in stone. Louie Simmons has done an incredible job of designing a system that changes with new technique advances and research. I don't use it.

Progressive routines are looked at as "old school." They're tried and true, you will gain, just probably not as dynamically at first as if you switch to WS. However, RDC, for example, uses progressive routines. Mine is a modified periodized progressive overload with mini wave cycles. It works great on the squats and deadlifts. And that's odd. My skeleton is less suited for lower body stuff than upper body......

For a good debate on MM, go to the monstermuscle raw discussion board. They discuss raw, geared, juiced, performance-enhancer-free, etc. I go by deadlifter2k or something like that at monstermuscle. (My avatar is Snoopy and Woodstock...... masculine.......)

God BLess!

[willbrothers]

I think there are a number of routines that will work and most articles and research support this. The biggest factor is the athletes dedication to the program. I believe muscle confusion is important, I have been mixing this in and I have seen visible results in the past few months (this was a Weider prinicple). I think changes are necessary.

[Thane]

I was just curious to see what others did. I personally do more event and oly training than anything. When we get bored we do some bodybuilding stuff just to break things up. I have been down both roads, but nothing will compare to taking out the tires and stones on a Sunday afternoon and having at it! I have never found that "cookie cutter" program. I agree with Doug about Louie. After going to one of Daves seminars years back, I have never lifted or thought the same about training. Like Dave said, if you leave the gym stronger than you were when you went in, something is wrong!

[davew09]

i guess it all depends on who you believe...progressive overload training assumes that you will become stronger by handling heavier weights....Westside method assumes you become stronger by increasing your ability to generate force (mass x ACCELERATION-westsides all important factor)

me- i don't know...i tried progressive overload for about 4 months, made "good" progress...now i'm on a 9 week trial period of Westside principles...i have my training videos posted on youtube...the link is on my profile...i'll let you guys know how it goes.

[willbrothers]

I just like variety. I think it helps keep me from becoming bored an d I get better results. There are some things I don't change, some lifts I have continued to include in my workouts for years but some I like to change up.
Lou ferrigno would vary workouts practically every time where as Arnold would stick to the same routine if he found it effective and would not switch until it stopped becoming effective.

[Tom Isbell]

I have to admit that I dont know much about westside or progressive. They both sound like something you would have to buy a book to learn. I personally like volume type workouts.

I start out with a set of 10 and work my way up to a double or triple then go down while I have my cns warmed up and do some reps again. Not sure what type of thinking that fits into though.

William:
I met Loug Ferigno a couple years ago. He still looks good. Much stronger and healthier than arnold does now.

[Tom Isbell]

Can somebody describe how westside and progressive differs as far as bench press routines?

[vince148]

Progressive is just pretty much starting out with lighter weights and each workout add weight while decreasing the reps. The idea is that you will attain a new max at the end of whatever time frame your cycle is set up for.

Westside is based on the Russian/Bulgarian systems. They use a conjugate method of training on their max effort days and a speed or dynamic effort another day. On ME days you would pick exercises that are similar in nature to the main lift and max out on it that week. Then you choose a different exercise the following week and max out on that. The dynamic days are for training speed, or actually moving lighter weights at a fast rate of speed to develop force. This is where bands and chains come in, for accomodating resistance.

There's a lot more to it, but that's the basics. I would go to WSB's web site. There are tons of articles by Louie Simmons that covers it. Also, Elite Fitness' site has articles as well.

[willbrothers]

That's pretty cool Tom, I saw him on the pumping iron special addition and he did look great. That must have been pretty cool.

[willbrothers]

I like mixing in westside every now and then just because it seems to help with recovery and explosive movement (recovery because the weight is lighter and explosive movement because of the speed necessary to do the lift). But progressive has given me better results overall. I like the blended approach.