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Post by pitbull on Oct 31, 2005 9:07:58 GMT -5
RDC, Good to read you posts.
1. “DISAGREE.......THEY ARE ONLY ASSOCIATED WITH SUCH IN THE PAST HUNDRED YEARS OR SO......” Actually drums were banned by law in this country back at the founding until the late 19th century due to this reason and because the Christian influence on America. The only two exceptions to this was the military [march beat] and in New Orleans [due to the voodoo religion].
2. “DRUMS WERE A BIG PART OF ISRAELS WORSHIP AND THEIR MUSICIANS USED THEM...” Then how come the Bible and archeology has never been able to prove this. Not one of the verses you quoted supports this theory.
By the way, no matter how you look at it, a timbrel, tambourine, tabor, a tabret is a percussion instrument but not a drum. There is no logical way to make such a jump in logic. Trust me, I didn’t spend 6 years in band sitting right in front of the percussion section and not have a little bit of musical theory sink in when it was taught to me by both lecture and practice. A timbrel is not a small drum in any shape or fashion.
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Post by pitbull on Oct 31, 2005 9:17:55 GMT -5
jimray Good to hear from you. It seems that you have a couple misconceptions from what I posted.
1. “We've discussed this before on the NASA forum. When I type, "this" I mean the Biblical concept of being, "separate", because THAT's what this is all about.” No, this is about Biblical standards rather than Biblical separation. Those are two distinct doctrinal issues.
2. “What would the Amish think of you for the lifestyle you live? (Clothes with bright colors, buttons and snaps; driving a car, typing on a computer, etc. etc.)” I want you to think about something for a second when you bring in this argument. 1. The Amish, who are also from the Anabaptist Movement, base their lifestyle partially off the fact of the persecution by French Catholic soldiers. I know this because I have asked them while witnessing to them. When I ask them for Biblical reasons for their beliefs and practices, they cannot give me any. 2. When I posted this one guideline within the overall Biblical standard regarding music, did I give any Biblical support for it? Yes. I will stand upon the Bible for my final authority on ALL matters of faith and practice.
So far, I have yet to see anyone post anything from the Bible that counters this guideline. With the exception of RDC, all I have seen so far is accusations and personal attacks instead - for example, the following statement by you: “Don't think for a minute that Satan doesn't try to twist people's interpretations of the Bible to deflect the truth and to distract us with arguments about legalism.”
First, what is legalism? It is the attempt to gain or keep one’s salvation by something one does [sacraments, baptism, church membership, tithing, etc.]. Have I once in any of these posts said that you have to give up drums in order to be saved? No. Have I once in any of my posts said that you will loose your salvation if you use drums? No. So where is the legalism that I am promoting?
Second, I am not trying to insert my private interpretation onto the Bible. When I used to be religious, I would try to use the Bible to support my worldview and opinions. I repented of that. Now, I allow the Bible to dictate what my worldviews and opinions are. I allow the Bible to interpret itself. Anyone who tries to interpret the Bible is doing the job of the Holy Spirit and I would never want to be guilty of that blasphemy.
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Post by pitbull on Oct 31, 2005 9:23:04 GMT -5
Maybe this will help some of you to realize why I repented of CCM and drums. Go and read the new thread I started - "Deciding Questionable Things for the Christian". It is written by a famous preacher of the 20th century who is now in Heaven.
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Post by Rickey Dale Crain on Oct 31, 2005 14:32:37 GMT -5
here is a good article... also i went straight to my brother...he is working on his doctorate in music....he said a timbrel is any frame type drum...but usually a smaller one held in your hand or under your arm like a small tom-tom.. i think we are being too leglistic here.... www.psalmdrummers.org/resources/thebibletambourine.htm
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Post by Rickey Dale Crain on Oct 31, 2005 14:44:05 GMT -5
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Post by Thane on Nov 1, 2005 3:38:18 GMT -5
Brian, If something is not of God, not found to be Holy per the scripture, comes short of Gods expectation, is that not sin? Is all sin not evil? I have not made false accusations about you, only asked questions and pointed out "my findings" just as you have done. Per my findings, I can see no honest way to consider the drum argument, its just too far fetched. I believe you have read too much into the scriptures, put in what you wanted to see. If thats your bag, go for it, if you dont want to listen to music with drums, dont! But to claim that they are Biblically incorrect for worship, which in the end would mean evil (see the beginning again), is just plain wrong. Music is just that, its music, and as long as it is singing a song to God, praising his name, telling of his wonders, how can that be wrong, drums or no drums. With this, I plan to stop posting on this subject. Please shoot me an email if you want to continue. tharrison3@wm.com
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Post by pitbull on Nov 1, 2005 7:01:07 GMT -5
RDC, I likewise have checked with people with doctorate degrees in music, most of whom teach it now. None of them consider the timbrel a drum, but do see it in the percussion family just like cymbals and the piano is also.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 1, 2005 7:08:09 GMT -5
Thane, “If something is not of God, not found to be Holy per the scripture, comes short of Gods expectation, is that not sin? Is all sin not evil?” Look at it this way. I am a Christian. I will commit sin periodically because I have not went home to be with the Lord. That is why 1 John 1:9 is in the Bible. When I commit sin, I do not become evil again as I was when I was lost. Does that make sense to you? All Christians commit sin – either in word, thought, or deed – but that does not mean they become evil or Satanic because of it.
“I have not made false accusations about you, only asked questions and pointed out "my findings" just as you have done.” No, you have read into my discussion and my Scriptural citations what is not there.
“Per my findings, I can see no honest way to consider the drum argument, its just too far fetched.” I used to feel the same way. I used to make the same arguments. God has gradually allowed to grow to the level. That is why I don’t go around picking fights with other believers over this or start accusing them of being “evil” or “Satanic”, as you have falsely said.
“I believe you have read too much into the scriptures, put in what you wanted to see.” Actually the opposite is true. I used to use the Scriptures to justify why I listen to music with drums as well as performing in a CCM band that used drums. Now, I allow the Bible to interpret my views, rather than the other way around.
“If thats your bag, go for it, if you dont want to listen to music with drums, don’t!” It is not “my bag” but rather my obedience to my Lord and Master via His Word, the Bible.
“But to claim that they are Biblically incorrect for worship, which in the end would mean evil (see the beginning again), is just plain wrong.” Huh? As I said above, you have made some false assumptions here.
“Music is just that, its music, and as long as it is singing a song to God, praising his name, telling of his wonders, how can that be wrong, drums or no drums.” This goes into the myth that music is neutral.
“With this, I plan to stop posting on this subject. Please shoot me an email if you want to continue. tharrison3@wm.com” That is fine. I don’t see what the point would be for me to contact you directly. Would you be more willing to listen to the Bible if I did that?
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