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Post by lovelace on Oct 20, 2005 21:42:26 GMT -5
Preaching That is Non-Doctrinal. A pathetic wave of biblical ignorance has swept through the contemporary church. Much of the wind behind the wave is generated by the grossly erroneous preachers who frown on doctrinal preaching and from whose unsanctified lips emerge such impious frothing as, "Don't preach doctrine! It divides!" Of course it divides! It is intended to divide! It was never God's plan to have more goats than sheep in His flock! And yet that is precisely what has happened in multitudes of parishes.
While the Scriptures clearly indicate that there will be some tares scattered throughout the fields of grain, and some goats lurking amidst the flocks of sheep, the biblical picture is not the prevailing image of this day. Instead, the tares vastly outnumber the wheat and the goats are far more prevalent than the lambs.
The direct result of non-doctrinal preaching is millions of persons in the churches who believe they are Christians as a result of something they have done, and whose claim to faith would have been denounced in a saner age as nothing more than mere mental assent.
Shame on the preacher who is too graceless to preach the sovereignty of God, the depravity of man, the wrath of the Almighty, the eternal condemnation of the unbeliever, the atonement of Christ, the mandatory nature of regeneration, the necessity of repentance, the justification of sinners by true faith, and all the other sobering and convicting doctrines of the word of God.
I read this on another site that Ricky posted and wanted to ask what is your thoughts of What? a contemporary church is today? If you haven't been to one, how do you know what they are doing? Are all new Church's that do NOT claim a denomination considered a Contemporary Church?
I am just curious to what you think. I have thick skin myself and I attend a church that is Contemporary. I have been to Quaker, Methodist and every Baptist Church possible. I was saved at a Contemporary Church and really love it. I find it to be less status centered. Just my opinion. I guess we all need to find the Church that is right for us and where we get the most out of it. I love to experience the bible in different church's and love to feel...what they offer. Our church DOES preach by the Bible! I don't know if that is a normal in Contemporary Church's or not. We are NOT part of a Contemp. Union.
Reason I state this is my father worked as a teenager every year the Southern Baptist Convention and he had to clean up after the yearly meeting at the local coliseum. He told me that he found more moonshine, and liqueur bottles after it....more than any rock concert he every cleaned up. This was 35 years ago. I don't think all Baptist Church's are bad or think they are lushs. I think we need to be open minded. If you grew up in a certain church and it has worked for you, then you probably will not understand other church's.
God Bless, Mike
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Post by Rickey Dale Crain on Oct 21, 2005 9:42:38 GMT -5
hey mike
the post form Dr Richard Owens Roberts was not denomination based....he is in fact, i beleive a member of a quacker congregation or something similar..
it also was not very nice to try and imply baptist kids are drinkers...etc...perhaps it is their unsaved friends that are making the problem...as baptists are more evangelical than any other group... there are sides to every story......as i have been involved in similar type meetings and that was the case...
most, not all, contemporary (from all denominations and non-denominational) churches appeal the senses and not to the soul...... the churches foremost job is to evangelize the world..... only they know if they are concentrating on that....
t.v. evangelists are a joke in most cases....money..money...money is all they talk about...... it puts all Christians in a bad light......
the list goes on........
worship is not aobut rolling around in the aisles but in ones heart coming to God and praising him.......but in whatever way that is.....
It is a shame todays churches in all denominations have lost much of that.....
feeling good is not a sign of a good church...feeling convicted is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rdc
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Post by lovelace on Oct 21, 2005 10:42:26 GMT -5
Rickey, I was not at all implying Baptist Kids are all drinkers? I was stating that my father (as a teenager) worked at the coliseum during the Southern Baptist Convention and found those objects. I grew up Baptist, so I am bringing up something that happened 35 years ago here in our community of Baptist Church's and my family. I was trying (guess I didn't do a good job) to say, just because one Church has something bad happen, doesn't mean they are all bad! Everyone can come up with a scenario of other denominations. If I offended anyone by stating that, I am sorry. I have heard some cracks on contemporary church's and think it is unfair. You need to look at the individual church itself. I know some may not believe in drums and guitars in the church, but it is NOT about entertainment, rather than the words. The definition of Contemporary is something new or modern. So would all new church's that do NOT proclaim a certain denomination, all get thrown into one category. Ex. Baptist...primitive, southern, fundamental, independent..etc.etc.
Again, I want to make sure I was not cracking on Baptist as a whole, just pointing out facts that happened 35 years ago. I was not there and do NOT hold it against local Baptist Church's.
I personally LOVE my Church and have yet to make it through a service without the tears flowing down my face. Some of it is due to remembering my grandfather preach on the same subjects, most is feeling the spirit talking to me and truly understanding the message being preached!
God Bless, Mike
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Post by Doug Parrish on Oct 21, 2005 11:40:39 GMT -5
I had a nice, touchy-feely response all planned out. That just ain't me. So here you go.
There are too many different contemporary churches to make any blanket responses. In general, they are good for leading people to Christ (the milk) but not all are so good at building strong soldiers for the army of the Lord (the meat). If you want to grow up all big and strong and healthy, you gotta someday drop the milk and start feeding on the meat.
So ask yourself, is my pastor feeding me milk or meat? Am I getting the whole meaning of the message, or the cliff notes? Bryan and I email each other regularly, and oftentimes I read something he's written and I have to go look it up. It's called rightly dividing, or not getting duped into believing something just because someone tells you the Bible says it's so. Prove all things, hold on to what is good and right. And if a church, yours or anyone elses, isn't helping you to grow spiritually and in a biblical manner, time to cut your ties and move along.
Hope somehow that made sense.....
God Bless. Doug
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Post by Doug Parrish on Oct 21, 2005 11:41:53 GMT -5
Oops, forgot to mention. Bryan knows his stuff. WHenever I've looked something up, he's pretty much right on target!
(Didn't want to make you sound bad, brother Bryan...)
God Bless. Doug P.
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trish
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by trish on Oct 21, 2005 21:38:12 GMT -5
Ok, here's my two cents on the subject. Of course, I grew up Baptist (Independent/Fundamental) and I have a few problems with contemporary churches. For instance, many of them are calling people "unchurched" instead of unsaved or lost souls, etc. They are doing this, I guess to make people not feel as bad about their faith. I don't agree with this at all.
I also feel that contemporary churches are trying to be more worldly. This is not causing a true division between saved people versus unsaved people. We have to show reverance to God. Many contemporary churches do not do this.
As for the music, I attended a contemporary church with some friends of ours and I was taken aback by the music. There were no hyms, no traditional songs of how being saved had changed someone's life, no songs of how someone had come through struggles with God helping them. This concerned me. In fact one song, said "There is no God like Jehovah God." Well there is only one GOD. In fact this song didn't have many words other than this. This was not the only song that alarmed me, but it is the one that stuck out the most. I am not saying all contemporary churches are like this, but this is my experience at one.
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Post by Shane Gaydon on Oct 21, 2005 21:57:59 GMT -5
We also spent a great deal of time at the start of the service watching videos on their big jumbotron. I went there to hear some preaching not watch videos and listen to their expensive sound system. I also did not like the fact that the church had basketball goals attached to the ceiling. This was a multi-million dollar building but they could not pay for a separate room to play ball. A place where we worship God should be sacred and holy not a place where you can have a pickup game of HORSE.
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Post by Shane Gaydon on Oct 21, 2005 22:03:53 GMT -5
I also wanted to add that I have noticed a new trend of the contemporary churchs. They are now enabling members to pay their tithes online with a credit card. Now you can give them your money without the hassle of even showing up on Sunday morning. What angers me even more is that the credit card companies get a percentage from the vendor. That means some of God's money is going directly to those sneaky dirty crooks.
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Post by lovelace on Oct 21, 2005 22:30:14 GMT -5
Good post Trish. I think with all Church's it is finding a pastor you can learn from and he preaches and teaches by the bible itself. I do not believe in non doctrinal preaching. I do have a historical question about gospel/hymn music. What is the time frame of when these songs were written. The other night at the revival, I couldn't help but pick up a hymn book. I noticed some of the songs, but did not many. The song book my grandfather had in his church was from the early to mid 1900's. I remember a few songs that still bring back memories. One being "precious memories" and "If I could hear my mother pray again". Of course, "amazing grace". Some of these songs are rejoicing on the "reunion day" in heaven. My question is this, are these songs more "tradition" than anything? I noticed a lot of familiar songs and both are Baptist Church's. I also noticed a lot missing. My grandfather was very old fashioned and did NOT allow musical instruments in the Church. He believed in "making melody in your heart". Do I think you will go to hell because of a piano or guitar, no...just his belief and that was the way it was. You feared NOT be saved in his Church. I would love to be able to hear him preach one more time, hopefully I will on the other side! One song that really popped in my head while being Baptized was "Shall we gather at the river". My grandfather was not a great singer, but he always led the songs and started them, I miss that! I will leave with a couple. www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/s/w/swgatriv.htmI'll Fly Away Words to Gospel Songs I'll fly away, oh glory, I'll fly away When I die, Hallelujah, by and by I'll fly away Just a few more weary days and then I'll fly away To a home where joy shall never end I'll fly away I'll fly away, oh glory, I'll fly away When I die, Hallelujah, by and by I'll fly away Albert Brumley, Sr. was 26 when he sung the words to this gospel song "I'll Fly Away". This tune was accepted by the Hartford Music Company in 1932 and it has been recorded thousands of times. Thoughts from Mr. Brumley... (Quote) He believed in God-given talent, but he didn't believe in direct inspiration. "I've had so many people come to me and say, 'I've got a song here that the Lord gave me,' and I've always wondered "why the Lord didn't finish 'em up." he said. From Country Music Magazine, July '78
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Post by firefightertom322 on Oct 22, 2005 9:12:02 GMT -5
I think that pastors are too worried now about offending people instead of preaching the gospel.
I think that I would have liked mikes grandfather.
I have seen my pastor when I was a child preach and it would hit home. I have seen my pastor at the church i attend now do the same and then turn around and almost apologize for it. I dont care about denominations but i do want to hear some old fashioned preaching when i go. We seem to lack that now. If i get offended maybe i need to take it to heart right? Tom isbell
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Post by pitbull on Oct 24, 2005 7:00:03 GMT -5
I personally am an Independent Fundamental Baptist preacher, celebrating my 13 anniversary this year. As such, I am non-denominational - in other words, I believe in the autonomy of the local congregation. I find no Biblical support for any human government to have authority over the local church. This has been held by Baptists for centuries. Unfortunately, there are Protestant denominations who have taken the name "Baptist" and distorted this view. That is why many hear the name "Baptist" and unfortunately think it is a denomination.
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Post by jimray on Oct 24, 2005 16:10:13 GMT -5
"A place where we worship God should be sacred and holy not a place where you can have a pickup game of HORSE."
Shane, I can't agree with that. You can have the finest building in town, but God does not care one whit. If Jesus came to your town, where do you think He'd go? Not to some palacial church in the suburbs, but he'd be with the homeless bums and goth kids with their spiked hair. Credit card or not, he'd care more about the poor woman giving a dollar than someone driving their fancy car to church. Buildings are not sacred. God doesn't bless poor African jungle churches?
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trish
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by trish on Oct 24, 2005 20:04:37 GMT -5
Churches don't have to be the best buildilng in town or the most expensive built. However, we should try to make it the best we can. The church Shane is referring to, spent millions of dollars on a building that looks like a business center and inside is a gymnasium with chairs and a stage. This is not showing reverence to God. I've spent my life in small country churces and we didn't have nice pews or expensive audio equipment, etc. However, we did keep the church clean and as money allowed, we made improvements. Church is God's house; we should take better care of our church than we do our own home.
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Post by pitbull on Oct 25, 2005 7:08:48 GMT -5
We need to show reverence to the place, no matter what type of building we choose to use. Likewise, I have no problem if games and fun is done respectfully there. The most important thing is we remember that the church is the people not the bricks or wood.
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Post by jimray on Oct 25, 2005 10:55:26 GMT -5
"The most important thing is we remember that the church is the people not the bricks or wood. " Amen Bryan! My point exactly. You can meet at the town dump and where 2 or more are gathered in His name, the Holy Spirit will be among them. That DUMP will become Holy ground. Don't venerate or worship items or buildings. "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Matthew 6:21, Luke 12:34 KJV (Bryan, NASA PS Nats in TN in March?)
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